On 8th March 2021, the most spoken about interview with the Duchess of Sussex Meghan and Prince Harry, the Duke of Sussex, sat down with Oprah Winfrey to discuss a variety of topics including their part in the royal family, and also their joint hopes for the future of their family.
At the beginning of the interview, Oprah seemed to be quite excited that Meghan had a baby bump, saying 'you really are having a baby...that's more than a bump' and Meghan added that she would reveal the gender of their unborn baby later on in the interview. Oprah added that there is no subject that was off limits, and she also stated that Meghan and Harry were not getting paid to do this interview.
After stating that it was almost 2 years ago since Prince Harry and the Duchess had their national wedding day, Oprah described it to Meghan as a 'sense of magic', adding that when she came through the door, it seemed like she was 'floating'. Meghan added that she had slept the entire night beforehand, woke up and instantly began listenening to the 'going to the chapel' song. She also added that they tried to make the occassion fun and light, but that both her and Harry were 'really aware that it wasn't our day...it was the day that was planned for the world'. Meghan also explained that she joined the royal family 'naively' and admitted that she didn't know much about the royal family, and it also wasn't something that was discussed in conversations at home. Oprah suggested that if you're going to marry a royal, you would have done some research, which Meghan replied to by saying 'I didn't do any research about my husband...everything I needed to know, he told me'. She went on to explain that she 'didn't fully understand what the job was' and that she and Harry aligned on their cause driven work. She also admitted that there was no way to understand what their day to day life would look like, and as an American, the see the royal family as 'magical kingdoms', but discussed that the perception and reality of the royal family are two different things.
Oprah asked Meghan what it was like for her when meeting the Queen for the first time, adding that she obviously wanted to make a good first impression. Meghan stated that there wasn't 'massive formality' when meeting the Queen, but added that she got on really well with her own Grandma and thought it would be a similar experience with the Queen. She was asked whilst in a taxi with Harry if she knew how to courtesy, and admitted that she had to learn how to within minutes of her first meeting with the Queen. Oprah asked if she was intimidated because it was the Queen, and Meghan stated that in LA you see celebrities all the time and as an American it's easy to say 'Ooh they're famous people', adding that meeting the royal family was a 'completely different ball game'. A day after the interview with Oprah, she went to their new property in America and asked Meghan what it felt like being there...and Meghan replied with the word 'peace'. They also discussed the 2 hens that Meghan and Harry had rescued, and Meghan also revealed that she was most excited about being able to now live her life authentically, adding that life was 'so basic but truly fulfilling'. She also stated that even 3 days before her official wedding day with Harry, they had their own private wedding in their back garden after they called the Archbishop of Canterbury...and nobody knew about that, adding that they knew their big day would be a 'spectacle for the world' so they wanted their own private event too.
The next topic of conversation was led by Oprah, discussing that behind the scenes there was lots of drama, and Meghan had a lot of tabloids painting a 'non flattering picture' of her; including news stories such as 'Hurricane Meghan', the departure of high profile palace staff members and the story about Meghan making Kate Middleton cry which Meghan explained was a 'turning point'. 6 months after Meghan and Harry's wedding, that's when the riff happened between Meghan and Kate which supposedly 'left Kate in tears on the strict demand of flower dresses'. Meghan explained to Oprah that this particular narrative didn't happen and that's when everything changed. She went on to explain that the reverse happened. 'It was a hard week of the wedding and she (Kate) was upset about something, but she owned it and apologised. She did what I would do if I knew I had hurt someone'. Meghan goes on to explain that a few days before the wedding, she knew that Kate was upset about the flower girl dresses, and in fact, that made Meghan cry. She goes on to say 'In the context of everything else that was going on, it didn't make sense to not just be doing what everybody else was doing', especially whilst she was dealing with everything else including the relationship with her Dad. Oprah asked 'What would make you cry? What were you going through?' to which Meghan replied 'Not confrontation, I don't think it's fair to her to get into the details of that...she apologised and it's forgiven. What's hard to get over, is being blamed for something I didn't do'. She further explains that 'it's important for people to understand the truth', stating that 'if you love me, you don't have to hate her, and if you love her, you don't need to hate me'.
They began discussing a variety of headlines comparing Meghan and Kate with Oprah stating that Kate was being praised for wearing her baby bump, and the headlines about Meghan asked why she couldn't keep her hands off of her baby bump, and whether it was for pride or vanity. A similar situation happened with the use of avacados, where Kate was praised in using them to help her during her pregnancy whilst Meghan's use of it was described as negative, toxic and something to do with deforestation. Meghan asked 'what does it have to do with pride or vanity?' with Oprah suggesting that maybe there were different standards for Kate and a separate one for her, but did she know why? Meghan stated that she knew what layers were at play there and it felt like there was a narrative of hero vs villain. Oprah stated the different layers, including the fact that Meghan is an American, an ex-actress, a divorcee and also she was mixed race, so maybe there were instant barriers, telling a different story or just being able to try and fit in. Meghan states that she was thankful for having life experience before joining the royal family, explaining that she had her first job at a yoghurt shop when was 13 years old, she's always worked and valued independence and spoke of her outspoken ways on women's rights, explaining that 'I have been advocating so long for women to use their voice, and then I was silent'. Oprah asked if she was silent or silenced, and Meghan replied with 'the latter'...
Meghan was also given clear instructions that whenever somebody asked her a question, to reply with 'no comment', whether it was her friends or even her parents, and she did 'everything they told me to do'. She revealed that her friends would tell her stories from the media, and once they were married it started to worsen, as they were not being protected and people were willing to lie, in order to protect other members of the family, but not tell the truth to protect Meghan and her Husband Harry. Oprah asked whether she felt not supported by the powers of the firm and monarchy, and Meghan stated that it's hard for people to distinguish the two. She adds 'there's the family, and people running the institution. The Queen has always been wonderful to me, including our first joint engagement, having breakfast, receiving a beautiful gift and also loved being in her company'. Oprah wanted to know what the gift was, and Meghan explained that it was a pair of pearl earrings with a matching necklace. She even explained that the blanket the Queen uses to keep herself warm, was offered for Meghan to share whilst they were being driven somewhere. Meghan described her as 'warm, inviting and welcoming'. Oprah asked if she felt welcome by everyone in the family, using the Wimbledon event which Meghan and Kate attended together as an example; with the sister in laws helping eachother adjust into the royal family life. Meghan said that everyone welcomed her, but 'the last 4 years is nothing what it looks like' explaining that people tell you that you can and can't do this or that and 'you can't do this because it will look like that'. She adds that she wasn't even able to go out for a meal with her friends, especially after not leaving the palace in months. She was also told to 'lay low' because she was everywhere in the media. She felt as if she was everywhere, but also nowhere. Meghan continued to state that 'I know there's an obsession on how things look, but has anyone spoken about how lonely if feels? Moments Harry had to work, during the middle of the night...there was very little I was allowed to do, especially when you come froma a full life or freedom'.
In 2019, Meghan was being interviewed by a South African reporter who had asked her if she was feeling 'ok' and Meghan thanked him for the question stating that she wasn't, but explained she would be able to get through it. Oprah questioned Meghan on what was happening internally. She stated that on the last day of tour, although vibrant and fun, and also exhausting, people were surprised when there was pain...and our job was to smile. She goes on to explain that when the reporter asked how she felt, to her, it seemed like 'it had never occured to anyone that she wasn't ok' adding that she had been asking the institution to help her for quite a long time. She explained that finishing the tour a year before the interview, things started to turn when they knew they were not being protected, and during her pregnancy she saw the 'continued reality' of what is was going to look like. She spoke about how staff would go on the record and create the most ridiculous stories which was the beginning of a character assassination, and behind closed doors whilst Meghan was pregnant, she was told that her unborn child (who soon was known as Archie) would not be a Prince/Princess and not receive security...saying that they were 'changing the protocol'. Oprah asked if Archie being a Prince would be important to her, and she simply said 'if it meant her was safe, then yes or course. I've been a waitress, actress, duchess, but I've always been Meghan...and the most important title will be Mum'. She explains that the idea of my son not being safe or the first member of colour in this family not being titled in the same way as the other grandchildren would be a worrying thought. Oprah asked whether it was Meghan and Harry's decision for Archie not to have the title of a Prince, and Meghan quickly replied with 'not our decision to make. I have a lot of charity with what comes with the titles...good and bad, and a lot of pain. I wouldn't wish pain on my child, but that's their right to make a choice about'.
Meghan goes on to explaint that they were never asked to take the traditional picture of mother, husband and newborn baby, and she explains that she was 'scared to offer up her baby, knowing that they wouldn't be kept safe'. Oprah asked if her or Harry had suspicions of why Archie wasn't going to be a made a prince, to which Meghan simply replied 'I can give you an honest answer. In those months when I was pregnant, I was told he won't be given security, not given a title, and also there are concerns and conversations about how dark his skin would be when he was born. Oprah looked incredibly shocked and asked 'who is having that conversation with you?'. Meghan admitted this happened in several conversations, but this is what Harry told her as she wasn't there first hand to witness these things behing said. She didn't expose the individual who made those comments, stating 'I think that would be very damaging to them, but I found out as this was relayed to me from Harry, during different conversations, adding that she wasn't able to follow up with why, but agreed with Oprah that her assumption around race could be the reason why. Meghan also spoke about the Commonwealth games, and how that is a bit part of the monarchy, and that whilst living in Canada, there were 60/70% people of colour living there, and she explained how important representation is, adding 'to see someone who looks like you in certain positions. If you can see it, you can be it. Young girls, grown women and men and meeting them during the commonwealth, seeing how important it was, and that this wasn't an added benefit or reflection of the world, it just showed how inclusive it is, that you can see someone like you in the royal family'
The next part of the interview discussed Meghan's mental health worries, with Oprah asking her what was 'almost unsurviveable?' and was she in some sort of mental trouble? Meghan explained that she felt like she was at a breaking point and didn't see a solution. She also didn't understand how all of this was 'churned up' and admitted that all of this seemed to be happening because she was breathing. She added 'I was really ashamed to say it at the time and admit it to Harry especially, because I know how much loss he has suffered, but if I didn't say it, I would do it and I didn't want to be alive anymore'. She continues and says 'it was a very clear and real and frightening constant thought. He cradled me and I went to the institution, saying that I needed to go somewhere and get help'. She added that she had never felt this way before and was told it wouldn't be good for the institution. She even explained to Oprah how she went to one of the senior people of the institution and she was told no. She says 'so many people who are afraid to voice that they need help, and I personally know how hard it is...to voice it and be told no'. She went on to say that a member of staff said to her that 'my heart goes out to you because I see how bad it is, but we can't help you because you're not a paid employee of the institution' even though she was begging for help and concerned for her mental welfare. Meghan also explained that she felt like she would have 'solved everything for everyone' and Oprah confirmed that Meghan was talking about suicidal thoughts, to which she replied 'Yes, this was very clear and very scary...and I didn't know who to turn to. One of the people I reached out to who's still a friend, was one of my husband's mum's friends'; (One of Diana's friends). Oprah asked whether she was able to go to the hospital or check herself in somewhere, and Meghan replied with 'that's what I was asking to do...I can't just order an Uber to the palace. She also added she hadn't seen her passport, driving licence or keys until she left the palace.
The night after Meghan's revelations, she was to attend an official event at the Royal Albert Hall, and she said that 'one thing that still haunts me, is a photograph'. She was told by friends that she looked great, but Meghan saw the truth of what that moment was, and the fact that she didn't want to be here anyone. Harry had suggested to her on the morning of the event to not attend, but Meghan replied back with 'I can't be left alone'. She explains that if you zoom in on the picture, you can see how tightly his knuckles are around her's, which is a sign that they were both trying to hold on. She added that when the lights went down in the royal box, she was just weeping and he was gripping her hands, but they had to put on the biggest smiles and shine the brightest lights. Oprah hinted at her and Prince Harry's mental health campaign with Apple, but she also asked why Meghan didn't feel comfortable asking for help. She explained that she didn't want to put anymore on her husbands shoulders, adding that 'he's carrying the world' and that in this interview she wasn't planning to say anything shocking, she was just telling Oprah and the world what had happened. Oprah asked what the palace's thoughts might be on hearing Meghan speak in this interview, and she said 'I'm not going to live my life in fear. So much is said with the understanding of truth, but I think...I don't know how they could expect that after all of this time, we would just still be silent, if there is an active role the firm is playing, in perpetuating false hoods about us...There's a lot that's been lost already and I grieve a lot, I've lost my father, lost a baby and nearly lost my name. Loss of identity, but I'm still standing. My hope from people to take away from this, is to know that there is another side and know that life is worth living'.
Prince Harry was then introduced onto the set and Oprah asked what his first thought was about the expectancy of their unborn baby. He said it was 'amazing', and that to have a boy a girl, 'what more could you ask for? We've got us and our two dogs'. In late 2019 the couple moved to Canada to continue serving the Queen, but Meghan and Harry's security which was normally provided by the royal family was cut off. In March 2020, days before the first lockdown, they relocated to Los Angeles where Tyler Perry offered his home as temporary accommodation and also provided security. They soon settled in Santa Barbara, California creating their own foundation called 'Archewell'. Harry stated that his biggest concern was being told at short notice that his security would be removed, and that the whole world knew their exact location. Harry added that the reason why the security was removed, was due to their 'change in status' which Harry replied back to with 'is there a change in threat or risk?' but it was due to their change of status of being part time instead of being fully consumed, that they had their security removed. He admitted that the newspapers and tabloids made it sound like it was Meghan's idea to leave with the idea of 'Megxit' and Oprah questioned the couple that after stepping back as senior royals, what was their tipping point to leave? and Harry's simple reply was 'desperate...went to all the places to ask for help, both seperately and together. Meghan added that they never left the family and wanted to remain in their same roles, but just as non senior royals as opposed to senior ones. Harry admitted that his main concern was history repeating itself, or in this case it would be far more dangerous adding in race and social media, but after receiving no help and dealing with 'this is how it is', was the biggest turning point for him too. Harry also spoke about 'me having a girlfriend was going to be a thing' and growing up he spent so many years doing his own work and his own learning, but wasn't aware of race, and suddenly became aware. He goes on to say 'as sad as it is to say, living in her (Meghan) shoes for a day, or the first eight days to see where it was going to go, and how far they were going to take it and get away with it. The UK is my home and that's where I was brought up, and I've got my own relationship going back a long way with the media, but I asked for calm, once as a boyfriend, a husband and now a father'. Oprah asked why he left, and his reply was 'lack of support and lack of understanding'. Oprah also questioned them on whether Harry blindsided the Queen to which he replied, 'I had three conversations with my Grandmother and two chats with my father...before he stopped taking my calls, asking me to put it in writing'. He explains that his father stoped taking his calls because he took matters into his own hands, and it wouldn't have been a surprise to anybdy. He adds 'it's sad that it's got to this point, but I had to do something for my mental health, my wife's and Archie's.
Before the next part of the interview, Meghan explains that she watched a film about the little mermaid, who falls in love with a Prince but has to pay a price by losing her voice...but she gets married to the Prince and at the end she gets her voice back, which seems like the exact storyline that happened to Meghan, but in real life. Oprah asked whether he had mentioned his concerns to anybody in the family, and he replied that it wasn't a conversation that would be had, and that he was ashamed of admitting it...unaware if they had the same feelings or thoughts at the time. He explained that he didn't have anyone to turn to other than close friends who had been with them through the whole process, but in terms of the family, their view was that 'this is how it is' and 'we've all been through it' and Harry explained that the difference this time was the race element, which was the trigger to engage in conversations with palace staff and family, adding that there were 'many opportunities for my family to show some public support'. There were also 72 members of parliament who called out the colonial undertones written about Meghan, but still, nothing was done to resolve the issue. Harry also explained how the family didn't address anything for over 3 years and that they were afraid the tabloids would turn on them, as there's an invisible contract behind closed doors. He added 'if you are a family member, you're able to wine, dine and give full access to reporters and you'll get better press. Everyone needs to have compassion for them in that situation, level of control by fear, led by generations before'. Mehghan added that the reason the tabloids have holiday parties at the palace is to construct their relationships, and although the news stories started with catty gossip, they soon changed to bringing out parts of people that were charged, including the changing level or death threats, and that changed everything. Harry added that Meghan was well received at the beginning, and also 'much better than expected' but after their Australia tour when they announced their pregnancy with Archie, that's when things changed.
Oprah asked if the couple had watched any of The Crown, suggesting if there were any hints of jealousy by the royal family. Harry stated that he just wished that things could be learnt from the past, adding how effortlessly it was for Meghan to come into the royal family and connect with people and how she was welcomed by the world, especially during the commonwealth games. He added that she was the 'greatest asset to the commonwealth games, the family could have ever asked for' and when Oprah suggested that they wanted to step back but also keep their foot in royal business, Harry said that he didn't think he would have his security removed, and Meghan added that although she and Archie would not be protected, she said 'please don't pull his security when he and I are most vulnerable to the world'. Oprah also questioned Meghan on whether she was the one who manipulated, calculated and are responsible for the 'Megxit' campaigns, and that she knew all along that this was going to happen and went through the process intentionally to build her brand. Meghan replied with 'can you imagine how little sense that makes? I left everything because I loved him, and the plan was to do this forever, and even wrote letters to the family saying that I was dedicated to this'. She went on to explain that there was no guidance and no classes on how to speak, cross your legs or even how to 'be royal', and even had to teach herself how to sing the National Anthem as she didn't want to embarress anybody on national television. She adds that she 'did this all behind the scenes to make them proud'. Oprah asked Harry if he would have stepped back if it wasn't for Meghan, and he simply explained that he wouldn't have been able to, as he was also trapped and didn't see a way out. Oprah quickly address this by saying 'this has been your life for your whole life...explain how you Harry, raised in a palace...felt 'trapped'? He explained that he delt trapped in the system, as are his brother and father now, and they also don't get to leave, but he has great compassion for that. Harry continues to state that it seemed like he was enjoying his life because there were pictures of him smiling and meeting people, but that was part of the job, his role, and the expectations for whoever you are in the family. He also described that if a car was to pull up outside and take them somewhere, he'd have to wipe his tears away, forget whatever he was thinking about and just focus on the job. Oprah asked him how his mother would feel that he's left the royal family, and he admitted that she would probably be angry at how this has panned out, and also very sad, but all that she would want was for 'us' (either William and Harry, or Harry and new wife Meghan) to be happy.
Oprah spoke briefly about their freedoms with the ability to sign deals with Netflix and Spotify, to which Harry responded to with 'that was never part of the plan, because we didn't have a plan' but admitted that in early 2020 he was cut off financially from his family and only had what his mother left him. He added that his mum would have probably seen this coming, and he's just realieved now that he's talking to you (Oprah), with his wife by his side, as he couldn't imagine what it was like for his mum to have gone through the process by herself, adding 'it has been difficul but at least we have eachother'. Harry also admitted he's spoken more to his grandmother in the last year than the years before, and that he has a good relationship with her. He also revealed that his father is now taking his calls and he knows that his father went to something similar and understands what the pain is like. He added 'there's a lot of hurt that's happened and I will continue to make it one of my priorities to try and heal that relationship. They only know what they know, (Meghan 'or what they're told'); and I love William to bits, and we've been through hell together, had a shared experience, but we're on different paths'.
Oprah also asked Harry about the conversation to with the colour of Archie's skin and he said that it was a 'conversation I'm never going to share, but at the time it was awkward, and I was a bit shocked. I'm not comfortable with sharing that, but that was right at the beginning about what the kids would look like'. Harry even admitted that the royal family even spoke to Meghan about continuing to be an actress because there's 'not enough money to pay for her', and Oprah asked if they would still be part of the royal family if they had support, which Harry replied to with 'yes, without question'. He went on to way 'I'm sad what's happened, but we did everything we could to make it happen, and eveything on the exit process with what could have been done, with Meghan adding 'we did everything we could to protect them. Oprah asked if the rumours were true about the couple being 'money grabbing royals' which Harry replied to with 'this was never the intention...our life is great now, with a beautiful house, family and the dogs are really happy. But at the time during COVID, the suggestion by a friend was 'what about streamers?', there were different options, and all I needed was enough money to go and pay for security to keep my family safe'. Oprah asked how they would use their Archewell brand to speak about things that are important, and Meghan quickly stated that 'life is about storytelling, and that what we live, what we're told and what we buy into, being able to tell it through a truthful lens, which hopefully is uplifting...and give it to the people who are not listened to or heard'.
Meghan also admitted that she has checked in with the Queen to see how her husband is doing, as they received news that he was in hospital. Harry said that 'people in my family have a fear of control but with us, it was just about being yourself. If you get it wrong, you get it wrong, and if you get it right, you get it right'. He added that the decision of last week meant that they would be having everything removed, but he completely respects his grandmothers decision. He also said that he would love to continue supporting those institutions, which Oprah suggested they could do with their new branding of Archewell. Meghan said that they're always going to do the work, and this decision about removing patrionages was all before anybody knew they were sitting down with you (Oprah). Oprah's final question was, 'what delights you now in your daily life/experience, here with Archie and Meghan?'. Harry explained that it has been a crazy year for everybody, but to have outdoor space where they can go with Archie, or taking the dogs to the beach...and the highlight for him is being able to put Archie on the back of a bicycle. Meghan added that in the past couple of weeks his favourite word has been 'hygrate' and whenever somebody would drive away from their property, he would shout 'drive safe'. Harry also touched upon his relationship with William saying that 'the relationship is spaced at the moment, and time heals all things hopefully'. Oprah asked if either of the couple had any regrets, and Harry firstly said 'No, I'm really proud of us. Proud of my wife, safely delivering Archie during a period of time that was so cruel/mean. He added that he would often come back from working in London and Meghan would be breastfeeding Archie. Meghan stated that her regret was 'believing them when they said we would be protected. If I would have seen that wasn't happening, I would have been able to do more. But I wasn't supposed to see it or wasn't supposed to know. Now we're actually on the other side, we've not just survived, but we're also surviving. I think all of the things I was hoping for have happened, and this in some ways is the beginning for us. It's been a lot and it feels like a lifetime. Oprah added that her story about a Prince does have a happy ending, with Meghan adding 'it really does, greater than any fairytale you've read'.
Oprah's final question was about when Harry was feeling trapped and not being aware of it, and whether he thinks Meghan saved him in any way. He replied 'yes without question, when these things have happened...it's seeing where the overlap is'. Meghan stated that she would disagree and that Harry saved 'all of us' and he said 'we've got to find a way for us, for Archie, and we made a decision that saved my life and saved all of us...you just want to need to be saved'. Oprah's final word were 'we can't wait for the big day this summer, thank you both for trusting me to share your story' and Meghan replied 'thanks for giving us the space to do it'
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